There is an arms race happening when it comes to graphical sales pages and Des Lau is one of the best “hired guns” around when it comes to creating these pages. His work just jumps off the page at you and there is no way that anyone who see what he delivers can’t help but know that what he’s offering is helping people’s offers convert.
But there are only so many hours in a day and not everyone needs a totally customised sales page or maybe they just can’t afford a graphic designer like Des to do that work for them. Well, in creating WSO Sales Letter Generator Des Lau has made it easy, fast and affordable for just about anyone to create a graphical sales page that looks amazing!
The product that Des has created uses a simple “fill in the blanks” format to help you generate your sales letter. You go through the software and just fill in the copy components or select colours and styles where necessary. At the end it produces a zip file with your jpeg files inside – easy as that.
I encourage you to click the link and go sign up for Des’ Sales Letter Generator.Click Here To See Podcast Transcript
Hello and welcome to WSO Backstage, I am your host Sean Kaye and today I have got with me my good friend Des Lau who is also a Sydney-sider.
Sean Kaye: How you, Des?
Des Lau: yeah, Great Sean. Good for a Monday
Sean Kaye: After a grand finals weekend here in Australia we are both up bright and early 9:15 on a Monday Morning
Des Lau: Yeah, its definitely not the ideal situation for a launch day, but yeah, I mean we’ve all got to do it don’t we?
Sean Kaye: You’re not a Melbourne Storm Fan by any chance?
Des Lau: No, far from it…
Sean Kaye: So… That’s why we’re both up early because the Melbourne team won the NRL grand final. If it had been a Sydney team it might have been a little different, anyway. So… why don’t you tell us a little about yourself and your background?
Des Lau: Ok…yeah well…My name is Des Lau and I am from Sydney, I’m predominantly … my background is graphic design, so I’ve been pretty much working in the field for the past, probably eight years doing graphics, offline and freelancing, and it was only in the last couple of years where I’ve really sort have wanted to start my own little thing, my own little business online and to take the next step into an online business with my design. So that’s where I am today. But yeah, my strength is predominantly design and marketing so sometimes I like to say I’m a marketer stuck in a designer’s body. (giggles) But yeah, I guess my skill is sort of taking that marketing side of it and turning it into visual and having sort of communication … that connection with marketing visually.
Sean Kaye: Yeah, so in your previous eight years of doing graphic design did you do the whole corporate enterprise large business graphic design or was it predominately small agency type stuff?
Des Lau: Yeah, it predominately arts agency … (… noise…) with a few corporates … but yeah, I guess you can say I was lucky enough not to delve into the whole corporate side of things…
Sean Kaye: Yeah, it’s quite a difficult thing so I mean I’ve come from a large publically listed 20 billion dollar a year business sort of background and it is one of the most, I have to say, I used to refer to the graphics people as the purple and blue people. Because, you know, coming from a technology background what things look like often is far less important than how they work and the communications and graphics people were very, very focussed on the look and feel and one of the things that’s changed dramatically for me in the last few years the whole concept of things having to look good to help sell your message. Are you finding that there is more and more demand now from people who want much higher end look and feel?
Des Lau: Yeah, definitely. I think with how it’s going, I guess a lot of it we just follow what other successful people do. And not think about, really the mechanics behind it. Which is ok, I mean if you follow successful people that are doing it right and, you know, all power to you. But I found it’s all about a balance and I guess it’s not really about getting caught up in how the things look it’s more complimenting your content and your product.
Sean Kaye: Yeah, I think it is important, one of the things that is important when you do any kind of selling or product creation or anything else, I think it is really important to have a consistent look and feel, and one of the things that I notice occasionally in the market place, and I suppose for a buyer, it is almost subconscious for them, but there is some inconsistent stuff, and it’s almost always the stuff that doesn’t do very well in the market is, you know, graphically, you can have really nice features and things and even the sales copy can be great but when the whole thing does not flow, it just seems to fail…
Des Lau: That is right, yeah. It is really important to do design for the medium and for your market it is an art form to getting that right, you know, one colour, one dark colour could throw the whole sales copy off. For instance I seen a lot of examples recently where, you know, comparing a nicely graphic designed sales copy compared to a plain text one, and the plain text one did really well. And because I noticed that the graphics just weren’t suitable for that medium, that’s what I’ve learned offline, is you’ve really got delve into what the medium is asking for and the attention span of your reader and all that kind of thing.
Sean Kaye: And so do you have still small flying customers or is it predominantly now mostly online business?
Des Lau: A couple of months ago I would have had more offline but the direction I want to take is more online. So I am taking less offline clients on board.
Sean Kaye: They are a lot of work, aren’t they? I mean that one of those things that …, like we run a content creation and SEO business and the offline customers, I mean, you know…. For people I suppose listening it can be very lucrative, because they … I’ve always found that the offline customers just don’t have as much capability or savvy when you start talking about online marketing. But at the other end of the spectrum, they require a lot more handholding. Now in something as personal as graphics and visual, I mean you must have just spent a truck load of time on people saying: “you know, look, I am just not feeling it” or whatever. Was that a large part of the decision to sort of move away from that?
Des Lau: Yes. Yeah, 100%. Most of the time. As you say there are lot more offline people that require that hand-holding and, they are just not sure and very sceptical, whereas the online, you know customer, you know, knows what to expect and, I guess, they know that you know what I can produce would be suitable for what they want, because they have seen it before online and they are less included to be, you know, throwing things back and forth because they know time is valuable. As obviously they have got their own business as well, online. So, yeah, that is definitely one motive thought why I’ve stepped into online is because of that; where clients usually would take up a lot of my time, and I have to physically meet them. And just bounce back for weeks. And, you know, getting paid peanuts for it? You know?
Sean Kaye: Yeah in terms of, that’s sort of where I was going to take the next question is financially, what do you find more lucrative. Online or Offline?
Des Lau: Most definitely online. There are some good strong points for offline and charging a premium. Because they know I am the key to making their idea happen. For instance a website. They don’t know where to go, they don’t even know where to start and I could throw up a price and they will be happy to pay it. But the whole journey of making that happen is a very long process to get there. And I guess, you know, time is more valuable, I’d rather getting the job sorted, you know, within days and getting paid half that, you know? So long as, you know it’s running smoothly and they are not throwing things back and forth at me. And changing things….
Sean Kaye: So, I first came across your work. A little while back you … somebody you worked for or formed part of had trouble with their launch graphics and you sort of stepped in and took the reins and you created this really kind of cool little animated motion thing. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
Des Lau: Yeah, that was, I believe for Big Business Gorilla. So I thought I could … the brief was to pretty much put a gorilla in there and a video underneath it, so I thought what better way to capture a prospect by making the gorilla move so you can watch the video underneath that. Anyway it not really a thing that people have caught on to where using an animated gif in their sales pages. And I thought about just doing something really subtle. And that was the key just to making it really subtle so that it’s not really noticeable, but it’s catchy enough to make them want to read on and watch the video. So, yeah that one turned out really well, and I was quite happy with what I did with that sales page….
Sean Kaye: How often do you see that where you kind of get asked midway through, somebody’s, you know, launch process… I forgot about graphics or my sales page is out of league or my or the guy who’s doing it has gone walkabout … walkabout, for those of you who are listening overseas, walkabout means they are just gone gotten themselves lost, you can’t find them … what, how often, how much of your work is that sort of rescue operation versus planned and executed.
Des Lau: Yeah, I’d say ninety percent is a client with a launch coming up or it’s their time or they have left it till the last minute or something about the sales copy they are not happy with so want to do an overhaul so a lot of it is time sensitive, so I have to pump that out in a matter of hours. And yeah, I’d say ninety percent is that market…
Sean Kaye: Yeah and that is something I actually have to say you getting from people I talk to, you’re developing a very good reputation for being able to able to produce work quickly that is of a high quality, I think for a professional designers that is the most, I think that’s what separates them from an artist and a professional designer…
Des Lau: Yes…
Sean Kaye: Is the ability to work under time pressure and deliver good results
Des Lau: That’s right yeah…most definitely
Sean Kaye: So….
Des Lau: … Yeah, I’m sorry, I am just not in for the creativeness and the whole ‘arty farty’ thing for my portfolios (laughing)…. Help the business owner. Because I understand, as well, everything is time sensitive and to get it right on time is very valuable.
Sean Kaye: So, can you walk myself and the listeners through the start to finish process of somebody commissioning you to say do a sales page for them, but, you know, including you at the right time so say four to six weeks out from the product going live. What’s the process for somebody who says, you know, I have no idea how to go about this. What’s the perfect process from you’re perspective?
Des Lau: Four to six weeks, yeah, that’s a dream client; I definitely don’t get that sort of timeframe. But most usually it’s about a week; they give me, when they start to think of that aspect. Ideally I’d like to work with sales copy that is already done and they’ve either outsourced that to a professional copy writer and I take that document and I’d read through it, I skim through it and I read again and make sure I understand it first and foremost. That I understand the product and what they are trying to sell and how they are trying to sell it, and I would probably make changes if necessary if it wasn’t good enough I’d advise the client. In most cases they are happy with what I suggest. And then I would slim the sales copy down into, you know, just the introduction and the features, benefits where the videos can go. I’ll slot the buttons in where most necessary and a closer and adding the post script, and all that. And I just get started from top to bottom. I always try to find out about company branding, personal branding and all that. The current materials, any videos they have or previous products they have so I can match up the how the look and feel of it. If they do not have anything, I’ll just work off the cuff and ask them if they are happy with what I come up with. In most cases they are so….Yeah, I work top to bottom, and usually just follow a scheme, don’t go berserk or over the top. And … I …. A the end of it, I host it on my server and send it to them and … yeah…they’ll get a bit of a preview before it goes live. So, it’s worked well for me, … and, yeah, the process usually takes probably … I like to say 24 hours, I get it done usually in about three to four hours. But I like to refine and sit with it and read over it. So, yeah, 24 hours is a good “guesstimet”, depending on my time …
Sean Kaye: Wow… that’s amazing, I mean, you know, again, coming from a corporate background, we once had a logo done, and a corporate branding project, this was when I lived in Hong Kong, probably… I cannot remember the century. And a corporate branding project took six months. So,… and the logo did not really change, it ended up the font changed. So…. When you talking about, you know, full graphical sales pages in under a week from, you know, kick off to delivery, that’s ridiculous, that’s very impressive.
Des Lau: …. It comes with …. A lot of practice, and yeah, just refining my skill and the service I produce, usually, yeah, I aim for the fastest I can, but obviously there is a lot of work that I have to get through…
Sean Kaye: So, you did Adsense Dragon we had Abhi and Nish on the show earlier. So you did the graphic or sales page for those guys, who else have you done recently?
Des Lau: I have it for Austin Libby, Jay Fairbrother, offline guru.
Sean Kaye: Which products of theirs?
Des Lau: Offline Closer, was Jays, he got WSO of the Day with that one…. Austin was for his Google News Profits he got JB’s in (noise). Holly Bond, she had a restaurant theme for WordPress, that got WSO of the Day as well. Yeah, obviously for Abhi and Nish. And yeah a host of others which I … will have to open my library for …all of the names…
Sean Kaye: Yeah, yeah, yeah… that’s… I mean that’s a fairly impressive body of work, you know, because, those are all talking in the last sort of four to six weeks. I mean I remember Holly’s product was early September.
Des Lau: yeah
Sean Kaye: That’s pretty good. So, if somebody wanted to commission you to do some graphical design, you don’t just do sales pages right, you do other stuff too?
Des Lau: That’s right, yeah…
Sean Kaye: So if somebody wanted you to do some graphics work for them, how would they go about getting in touch with you?
Des Lau: Ok, … well it depends where they come from, the Warrior Forum, I am pretty active there, so PM me. You can get in touch with me on Skype: des.laumond
Yeah that’s probably…
Sean Kaye: … And your sales web, do you like have a web page for your design business, or anything?
Des Lau: Yeah, but that’s more offline
Sean Kaye: Oh, Ok.
Des Lau: And that’s well … visualjuice.com.au, so that’s probably my offline work, logo’s and corporate branding and websites. Yeah.
Sean Kaye: Sweet, sweet. So, now… This is where, I guess, we sort off transition into discussion about the product. Is you’ve been doing these graphical sales pages for a while …. You’ve now got WSO Sales Letter Generator coming out in probably under twelve hours…
Des Lau: yeah… I think it’s fifteen hours to be exact …
Sean Kaye: Yeah, as of the time we record this you’ve got less than a working day, you’re going to have a very long day…
Des Lau: Oh, Yeah, I just glad you are not webcamming me at the moment …it’s all messy, I see papers everywhere…
Sean Kaye: I’m pretty happy about that for my own self… so you have got that coming out, and when people hear this it will obviously be live at the time they hear this. So what, sort of inspired you to create this. Tell us a little about what it does and then your inspiration for the creation of it.
Des Lau: Ok, so… The WSO Sales Letter Generator is an application software where you can create these graphical sales letters, and it’s all formatted for you and you’ve got a choice of stylising your fonts and what graphics to insert in from my library and what not. But, the whole point of this system is to make things fast and easy for a product creator to come up with a sales page that looks the goods and basically it’s what I produce in an automated format for them. So it’s a fill in the blanks style, customising a sales letter through graphics.
Sean Kaye: So they’ll be able to use the output of that generator where?
Des Lau: ….Sorry…
Sean Kaye: So they can use it in like ….. it can be a WSO forum or like a from special offer, anything like that?
Des Lau: Yes, anything…. Basically, it’s a set graphic – the width is set. And I’ve made that width to suit any form and obviously your own web pages whether of not it’s using your word processing or optimised processes, it will suit all those. And you can use it for just generating small graphics like guarantee certificates, you can just dial in how many days and your message and press one button and it’ll generate that for you. So it is basically taking the whole Photoshop aspect out of it or any other online tool. This could be your go-to tool for anything you need with related to sales copy.
Sean Kaye: With the forum offers, I think one of the most giant pain in the rear end elements for anyone who does these things, is the BB-code. How much does your generator sort off eliminate having to deal with that nightmare?
Des Lau: Well obviously if putting it on forums, you have to deal with BB-code to insert the graphics. But what my generator has done is you press pretty much one button and will export the graphics you’ve created as a zip and that will be your jpegs once you unzip the zip, and you’ve just got to host the images and insert it via the BB-code, onto the Warrior forum.
Sean Kaye: So it’s pretty straight forward stuff.
Des Lau: Straight forward, yeah. I’ve included instructions and everything, video instructions for it. So, it’s basically a designer at your hands and I guess, I mean, obviously your fully customised sales pages is the more unique way of going about it. But this is as close as I could get it, you know, in application sense for the user to do it by themselves.
Sean Kaye: Yeah, I think one of things that people need to really understand if you’re listening to this and you’re interested in this kind of a product is that, you know, there are some of us out there in the market place who, you know, drop in a couple of hundred bucks on a unique sales page, is something we do just to save ourselves some time, but you know, if this is your first WSO or maybe you’re just selling a product to your own list, through optimised press or whatever you want to do. You know, dropping a couple hundred bucks on a sales letter is not cheap, so having the ability to use a product like this is pretty awesome, because you know, effectively if you don’t have the money kicking in, your time is less valuable than the money in your pockets. So if it takes you a day or so to put the page together, well, you know, is your day worth two hundred dollars to you at this stage. It probably, you know, it probably is. So I think is really a unique product. I think it’s going to sell really well. I think we’re going to see a lot of these pages. Now the question begs of that is, if we see a lot of these pages, how are we going to not see a lot of the same looking graphics and stuff.
Des Lau: Yeah, man. That is a real point of my product that I’ve really tried to refine and make it the most versus all it can be… and I’ve put in a lot of options and different settings and we’ve had it actually use the generator as well to get it more unique looking. And you’d be surprised at how unique you can get it to look. Provided you, you know just have a bit of play with it. And getting a bit of a practice into it, but, you know, in the last two days I’ve been field testing it and I’ve had a few customers trying it out as well and they’re very happy with how and what they can produce out of it. And how to make it the more unique look about it to suit their business….
Sean Kaye: And how is this going to sell in terms of price and those kind of things?
Des Lau: Yep. Well basically this is a subscription based model. You basically paying … there is two licenses, there is a personal license for seven dollars a month and a designer licence, so if you want to re-sell the services and the graphics you create out of it, it will be twenty five dollars a month, sorry twenty seven dollars a month. And … sorry … just lost my train of thought…. Personal license, that just allows you to create your own sales pages and what you produce and the designer licence, you know, you can create your own and create a few clients as well.
Sean Kaye: And are you going to, along the way for the subscription, are you going to be offering updated graphics packs or anything? Is that part of the subscription?
Des Lau: Yes, that’s why I’ve basically bringing in a subscription based model because of that aspect where I am constantly going to update it. I might even just fully turn the product into a template based-thing later on down the track. I am still actually thinking about how to go about that and making it right. So, I am already definitely making some of the features more jam-packed, bigger libraries, and just making it streamlined for the user. So it’s an on-going process and an on-going work in progress, and its more…. I am trying to build a community around it as well where I’ve opened up a Facebook group, and we can all chat sales copy and design. I’ve ordered in a good friend who is a sales copy writer, who is involved with the product as well. So, yeah you are getting a lot of value out of this subscription.
Sean Kaye: Yeah, I think one of the things that historically I’ve seen in this market is that people sort of are not as likely to pay obviously to pay subscription but I think one of the biggest mistakes you can make as a customer is to look at initial price of a product like this or any other software product because the number of WSO’s or small software products I’ve seen sell for seventeen or twenty seven dollars once off. And, you know, four months down the track the guy who sold it to you is no longer making money. He is now probably taken a loss on the product. When you add up all the on-going maintenance and service that has to go with the product and you know, you inevitably just end up unhappy because that guy can’t continue to support you. Whereas, you know, if you’re turning out a couple of WSO’s, you know, every couple of months, one every other month or you know one a month or whatever, or you’re small little sales pages for your list, seven bucks a month is inconsequential. I mean, this thing should pay for itself in, you know, one sale potentially. And if you’re doing work for clients, I mean twenty seven dollars, you know, that’s pretty small. And the advantage of course is that by paying the subscription model, you know, Des gets to keep working on the product. It is just something what I hear about these subscription products, I think it is almost one of those, almost, you know, listener education points is don’t run away from subscription pricing because long term if the person that you’re dealing with is delivering value to you over the long term, you’ll see it. If they are not, just cancel your subscription, but if they are delivering value it is the best way to buy software is through subscription.
Des Lau: Yeah … And that is the thing. This is what I do. This is my forte. And if I run away from this, my whole reputation is down the gurgle if you know what I mean.
Sean Kaye: Yeah
Des Lau: So, it’s something I’m taking tremendous pride in. I’ve spent quite a few months on it…
Sean Kaye: And it’s just like all software, you know. The more you work on it, the better it will become
Des Lau: That’s right, Yeah.
Sean Kaye: And if you have your community like you’ve built on your Facebook group. And they are giving you feedback. You know, there is nothing more rewarding as a customer than being able to talk to the person responsible for creating the product and actually getting the result you want in the product. Now that is not going to happen all the time but if it is a good idea, you know, nobody has a monopoly on good ideas. So, you’re going to put good ideas into your product, yeah?
Des Lau: Yes, oh, yes. Most definitely. Yeah, I always encourage my customers to give me feedback and suggestions. To make the product better, so…. And just on the whole subscription thing. I was going to say before; look at it this way. I charge a minimum of ninety dollars for each WSO I design. That is the absolute minimum. So what you’re paying is for a year, seven dollars times twelve is eighty four dollars and you can create unlimited WSO’s and you’re pretty much getting what I’ve produced in under ten minutes. If you wanted to. So all you have to do is sell twelve copies of your seven dollar WSO and you’ve made your money back for the whole year.
Sean Kaye: And that right there is the best throwaway sales line we’re going to come up with so….
Des Lau: Self published
Sean Kaye: Yeah there you go. On that what I can say is now that the product is live, it’s going to be an evergreen product so it’s going to be available going forward forever. And if you are interested in picking up the WSO Sales Letter Generator you can go to wsobackstage.com/slg . And I’d like to thank my friend Des I hope the launch goes well today and I hope the product does really well and definitely somebody I want to to talk to about my next launch and getting some graphics done for my own work.
Des Lau: yes most definitely … we can do that
Sean Kaye: Alright, well thanks a lot Des and now go do some stuff around the house or something.
Des Lau: (unclear) … I’ll try…
Sean Kaye: Alright thanks a lot
Des Lau: Ok thanks Sean, bye bye